Your Comments On...
-
The Visa Barrier
Congress's recent changes to American visa laws continue to wrongly limit the travel of Central Europeans.-
By Janusz Reiter
Comments
blatherbob wrote:
Dear 007, the WP moderators are not all that bad, they removed the post where MarcinK made accusations of (sic) treason. I would guess moderation is reactive rather than proactive and depends mostly on who clicked the "Report Abuse" link.
9/1/2007 3:23:09 PM
I also ought to thank the anonymous censor at WP for two things. Firstly, for demonstrating that this case is not about impartial reporting and giving an opportunity to present the point of view of our hurting "ally". Removing a critical comment that provided a few more facts and questioned the wisdom of endless bending over backwards for such allies exposed that not only does WP have its thumb on the scale, but that it has both palms there and is leaning heavily.
Secondly, I ought to thank for revealing the costs of making the proverbial "pact with the devil": of making our policies beholden to culturally alien allies who don't understand very well the concepts of compromise, balance, or incentives but, like a spoiled 5-year old, demand everything here and now. If we make it our policy that the irrational whims of such allies must be satisfied at any price or else they will take their toys and walk away to another sandbox then we are likely to start compromising our values. For instance, if those allies are so easily offended by criticism, then why don't we just make the criticism disappear and make them happy? If our allies choose to harass visiting Polish Americans because they are considered solely Polish citizens, then why should we anger our allies by defending our citizens - after all they've been warned by a one-sentence fine print somewhere on the State Dept. web site?
Another interesting example of the costs that our values incur when we try to appease and placate our Polish allies was the case of Edward Mazur. Edward Mazur is a Polish American businessman from Chicago who reportedly made some shady deals in Poland. On Poland's request, the federal government (State and Justice) initiated extradition proceedings against Mr. Mazur and he spent nine months in federal detention. Poland's Minister of Justice stated publicly that their side presented "unbeatable evidence" that Mr. Mazur had commissioned the murder of a high ranking police official. Here is an interested problem of cross-cultural translation: which American legal standard does Polish "unbeatable evidence" translate to? One would think that this would be the strongest legal standard of "beyond reasonable doubt". But the federal judge in this case, who hadn't rejected an extradition case in his 12 years on the bench, did not even believe that this case met the weakest standard of "probable cause" and called it "shocking and offensive" that the government relied on the evidence presented by Poland. I am not trying to promote Mr. Mazur to a role model here, but in this country we have something what is called "presumption of innocence" and "due process", but somehow an American citizen had to spend nine months in jail because the Polish government claimed that it had "unbeatable evidence". Why did our government have to bend over backwards and to compromise our standards by even starting these proceedings?
The Polish American community has a special duty to America when it comes to dealings with Poland. Because we know firsthand the deviousness and malice that are deeply ingrained in the Polish society (thanks to MarcinK and beata_jannasz for providing free samples), and that were in no way abated by the departure from Communism, we should be particularly skeptical of their motives and reliability and should be able to explain to our fellow Americans the costs and risks of taking Poland's declarations at face value. And under no circumstance should we let our sentiments for the Old Country and for the positive aspects of Polish culture cloud our critical judgement.
Secondly, I ought to thank for revealing the costs of making the proverbial "pact with the devil": of making our policies beholden to culturally alien allies who don't understand very well the concepts of compromise, balance, or incentives but, like a spoiled 5-year old, demand everything here and now. If we make it our policy that the irrational whims of such allies must be satisfied at any price or else they will take their toys and walk away to another sandbox then we are likely to start compromising our values. For instance, if those allies are so easily offended by criticism, then why don't we just make the criticism disappear and make them happy? If our allies choose to harass visiting Polish Americans because they are considered solely Polish citizens, then why should we anger our allies by defending our citizens - after all they've been warned by a one-sentence fine print somewhere on the State Dept. web site?
Another interesting example of the costs that our values incur when we try to appease and placate our Polish allies was the case of Edward Mazur. Edward Mazur is a Polish American businessman from Chicago who reportedly made some shady deals in Poland. On Poland's request, the federal government (State and Justice) initiated extradition proceedings against Mr. Mazur and he spent nine months in federal detention. Poland's Minister of Justice stated publicly that their side presented "unbeatable evidence" that Mr. Mazur had commissioned the murder of a high ranking police official. Here is an interested problem of cross-cultural translation: which American legal standard does Polish "unbeatable evidence" translate to? One would think that this would be the strongest legal standard of "beyond reasonable doubt". But the federal judge in this case, who hadn't rejected an extradition case in his 12 years on the bench, did not even believe that this case met the weakest standard of "probable cause" and called it "shocking and offensive" that the government relied on the evidence presented by Poland. I am not trying to promote Mr. Mazur to a role model here, but in this country we have something what is called "presumption of innocence" and "due process", but somehow an American citizen had to spend nine months in jail because the Polish government claimed that it had "unbeatable evidence". Why did our government have to bend over backwards and to compromise our standards by even starting these proceedings?
The Polish American community has a special duty to America when it comes to dealings with Poland. Because we know firsthand the deviousness and malice that are deeply ingrained in the Polish society (thanks to MarcinK and beata_jannasz for providing free samples), and that were in no way abated by the departure from Communism, we should be particularly skeptical of their motives and reliability and should be able to explain to our fellow Americans the costs and risks of taking Poland's declarations at face value. And under no circumstance should we let our sentiments for the Old Country and for the positive aspects of Polish culture cloud our critical judgement.
9/1/2007 11:26:12 AM
Dr_007 wrote:
Thanks to staryw and DebunkerUS for standing up for freedom of speech. Although this concept is traditionally associated with the First Amendment, any WP lawyer will tell you that WP is not legally bound by this Amendment since its scope is limited to actions of the government. In other words, it is the government that is prohibited from censoring WP, but WP, on its corporate site, can censor whomever and whatever it wants. So here it is back to "cuius regio, euius religio".
However, one would assume that WP should be bound by its self-purported image as a beacon of progress and enlightment and should tolerate criticism and debate, even if they question its pet political projects. So it was interesting to see the hypocrisy/double standards of this beacon exposed. According to WP it may be bad when Chinese Communists supress political dissent, but when WP removes a comment that does not agree with its political dogma - that is O.K. BTW, please don't tell me that my comment was removed for being offensive: another comment containing racials slurs and patently offensive to American citizens of African heritage remains in this discussion to this very moment [note to trial lawyers: save and review the comments of beata_jannasz at WP].
I found it already questionable that WP gave print space to an official of a foreign government to publish his propaganda without explicitly labeling it as a "political advertisement", but the removal of a critical comment demonstrated that WP has lost in this case the detached perspective that should be inherent to objective journalism of any respectable quality.
However, one would assume that WP should be bound by its self-purported image as a beacon of progress and enlightment and should tolerate criticism and debate, even if they question its pet political projects. So it was interesting to see the hypocrisy/double standards of this beacon exposed. According to WP it may be bad when Chinese Communists supress political dissent, but when WP removes a comment that does not agree with its political dogma - that is O.K. BTW, please don't tell me that my comment was removed for being offensive: another comment containing racials slurs and patently offensive to American citizens of African heritage remains in this discussion to this very moment [note to trial lawyers: save and review the comments of beata_jannasz at WP].
I found it already questionable that WP gave print space to an official of a foreign government to publish his propaganda without explicitly labeling it as a "political advertisement", but the removal of a critical comment demonstrated that WP has lost in this case the detached perspective that should be inherent to objective journalism of any respectable quality.
9/1/2007 5:09:19 AM
blatherbob wrote:
I'm not sure if MarcinK is aware of how poorly he represents Poland.
In MarcinK's world, critics of Polish government are (sic) traitors.
Criticizing Polish government is tantamount to soiling the nest (by the way, haven't politicians been soiling the nest on a regular basis long before 007 spoke? And if the nest is soiled, shouldn't somebody speak up, or else it will stay soiled forever?)
And then there is this gentle advice on dealing with Polish bureaucracy: "How about not coming back to the old country."
007's reference to "arrogance and delusions of grandeur" at first seemed like a figure of speech. Upon becoming acquainted with MarcinK's histrionics, it seems like an accurate description of an honor-obsessed mentality.
In MarcinK's world, critics of Polish government are (sic) traitors.
Criticizing Polish government is tantamount to soiling the nest (by the way, haven't politicians been soiling the nest on a regular basis long before 007 spoke? And if the nest is soiled, shouldn't somebody speak up, or else it will stay soiled forever?)
And then there is this gentle advice on dealing with Polish bureaucracy: "How about not coming back to the old country."
007's reference to "arrogance and delusions of grandeur" at first seemed like a figure of speech. Upon becoming acquainted with MarcinK's histrionics, it seems like an accurate description of an honor-obsessed mentality.
8/30/2007 11:26:37 PM
staryw wrote:
Marcin K= please get a grip on yourself when arguing your point with Debunker. If Debunker is indeed a Polish citizen, whether with his consent or against his will, he merely exercises his right to free speech guaranteed to him not only by the US, law but also by the Polish Constitution. Even a reluctant and non-resident citizen of Poland has every right to comment on affairs of his country (or former coutry, if that pleases you more). You, on the other hand, would want to gag Debunker and discourage him from visiting Poland. Might one ask why? Do you mean to say that Poland needs only yes-men? Is that an official Polish Government position, or your personal view? I might be slightly out of touch with Polish public debate standards, so would you care to advise?
8/30/2007 8:55:31 PM
staryw wrote:
Dear MarcinK = in this instance I am more interested in the wonderfully flexible interpretation of the First Amendment by the WP editors than in your opinion of Polish-Americans, but I cannot resist two questions:
As suggested by an earlier contributor, could you please comment on the Polish citizenship renunciation process, and perhaps compare it to the analogous US procedure (briefly described in every US passport). Who decides? How long it takes? How much it costs? Can a Polish decision declining to accept your renunciation of Polish citizenship be appealed? Secondly - being strongly critical of the US Government and its policies is your inalienable right protected by the same First Amendment that you so clearly hold in contempt. But if the US and its government are indeed as awful as you say, why would you want to bless your countrymen with visa-free travel to such a horrible land? Grateful for your comments. Your apology for your mistaken identity error is generously accepted.
As suggested by an earlier contributor, could you please comment on the Polish citizenship renunciation process, and perhaps compare it to the analogous US procedure (briefly described in every US passport). Who decides? How long it takes? How much it costs? Can a Polish decision declining to accept your renunciation of Polish citizenship be appealed? Secondly - being strongly critical of the US Government and its policies is your inalienable right protected by the same First Amendment that you so clearly hold in contempt. But if the US and its government are indeed as awful as you say, why would you want to bless your countrymen with visa-free travel to such a horrible land? Grateful for your comments. Your apology for your mistaken identity error is generously accepted.
8/30/2007 8:29:23 PM
MarcinK wrote:
Where there is a will there is a way. Apparently you seem much more knowledgeable in the subject than I am. So I will pass on answering your rhetorical questions. Should the procedure prove to be too hard or too expensive for any of you citizens of the world. I have another idea for you. How about not coming back to the old country in the first place . After all it is only logical that a person willing to give up his citizenship no longer desires to maintain any ties with his former country.
8/30/2007 8:13:42 PM
MarcinK wrote:
Dear DebunkerUS, please don’t patronize me by playing around with my name. You don’t know me and I’m not a little boy. However, you are right about one thing, I should have apologized for my mistake. So hereby I do apologize to St. Wiarus. After all, he only reposted the ramblings of a supposedly Polish person who calls his native country a parasite and refers to his Polish citizenship as a communist one. BTW I read a comment to the article on St Wiarus’ blog, and the message wasn’t much different to the one presented by Dr 007, although admittedly it wasn’t nearly as offensive.
Finally, I really couldn’t care less about WP’s censorship. Freedom of expression in American media is not my problem. I will let the likes of Dr 007 fight for the rights to free speech in their newly chosen country, America, the beacon of democracy.
Finally, I really couldn’t care less about WP’s censorship. Freedom of expression in American media is not my problem. I will let the likes of Dr 007 fight for the rights to free speech in their newly chosen country, America, the beacon of democracy.
8/30/2007 7:48:40 PM
DebunkerUS wrote:
Dear MarcinK,
Would you kindly divulge the cost of recommended by you procedure of giving up polish citisenship, please.
How long does it take?
http://tinyurl.com/363tmf
Isn't it compulsory by any chance or isn't it up to the president himself to decide about relieving anyone of it?
Isn't his decision final and nondisputable?
Would you kindly divulge the cost of recommended by you procedure of giving up polish citisenship, please.
How long does it take?
http://tinyurl.com/363tmf
Isn't it compulsory by any chance or isn't it up to the president himself to decide about relieving anyone of it?
Isn't his decision final and nondisputable?
8/30/2007 6:45:15 PM
DebunkerUS wrote:
MarcinKu, don't kill the messenger, please ;)
St. Wiarus only quoted a removed comment of Dr 007
If you kindly follow http://tinyurl.com/38mh7l you may notice the original author of the forementioned censored text. It took you a mere 15 minutes to discover your mistake.
However you did neglect to apologize for your mistake.
The Washington Post Believes in Censorship. I Don't.
Do you, MarcinKu?
St. Wiarus only quoted a removed comment of Dr 007
If you kindly follow http://tinyurl.com/38mh7l you may notice the original author of the forementioned censored text. It took you a mere 15 minutes to discover your mistake.
However you did neglect to apologize for your mistake.
The Washington Post Believes in Censorship. I Don't.
Do you, MarcinKu?
8/30/2007 6:27:34 PM
MarcinK wrote:
Just a correction, all of the above is obviously directed to mysterious Dr 007 and not staryw as I have written. Nevertheless the entire post of Dr 007 is a disgrace and I can only be happy that someone did try to remove that trash.
8/30/2007 5:31:42 PM
DebunkerUS wrote:
It is called "double standards" or hypocrisy or both
http://tinyurl.com/38mh7l
comparing with
http://www.techliberation.com/archives/021602.php
http://tinyurl.com/38mh7l
comparing with
http://www.techliberation.com/archives/021602.php
8/30/2007 1:24:01 PM
staryw wrote:
Why was the following comment by 'Dr 007' removed from this discussion, while a rebuttal to that comment by 'nihil' was left on? Did the Polish ambassador ring the Washington Post direct? Fortunately, the censored text had been reposted elsewhere on the net. A very interesting take on the First Amendment, gentlemen. Shame on you...
=========
It seems that Poland may have given up Communism, but not the Communist techniques of propaganda and disinformation. Mr. Reiter conveniently forgets to mention that Congress has just amended (and the President has signed into law) the VWP regulations raising the visa rejection cutoff that qualifies for participation in the program from 3 to 10%. And this will allow a number of additional countries to qualify. This generous gesture has accommodated the requests of our mostly New European allies, acknowledging that their Communist legacy may prevent them from meeting the more stringent standard and rewarding them for their political cooperation. Yet this is not enough for Poland - why? - because its citizens are the most egregious violators of our immigration laws notorious for the army of illegal immigrants already here and their current rejection rate is a whopping 26% (although down from 40% thanks to the generosity of our consular officers). So because Poland is not able to meet even the new, more relaxed, standard, we should now be bending backwards for it even more and additionally abolish any selectivity in granting visas so that their rejection rate goes down and allows them to qualify for the VWP. Instead of being grateful for a significant concession and seeing it as the first step toward their goal of visa-free travel, the Poles continue to complain and make more demands. While the Washington Post may fairly be criticized for printing this piece of propaganda, I think it is useful to have this illustration of the twisted and self-serving thought process of this "ally".
The Polish American community - of which I happen to be a member - has been watching with a certain degree of embarassment and a significant degree of satisfaction Poland's futile and abrasive attempts to get into the VWP. We were the first victims of Poland's arrogance and delusions of grandeur (such as considering themselves a normal European country, see this discussion) when it refused to recognize the American citizenship of those with Polish descent, in particular the recent refugees from Polish Communism, and declared us legally bound by all obligations of that Communist citizenship. Poland even implemented the policies of harassing departing Polish Americans, considered by its authorities exclusively as Polish citizens, at the border and preventing them from leaving Poland until they obtain Polish passports (the infamous "passport trap"). Yet this incident hasn't stopped them from asking Polish Americans to lobby for their visa obsession.
All these issues, starting with Mr. Reiter's dishonest article, paint the picture of a bizzare, dishonest, irrational, and self-serving country and the final question is whether something isn't wrong with our foreign policy if such eccentric parasites like Poland are considered our key allies? Shouldn't we have stronger allies among the countries that are much closer to the U.S. culturally and that share our Western values?
=========
It seems that Poland may have given up Communism, but not the Communist techniques of propaganda and disinformation. Mr. Reiter conveniently forgets to mention that Congress has just amended (and the President has signed into law) the VWP regulations raising the visa rejection cutoff that qualifies for participation in the program from 3 to 10%. And this will allow a number of additional countries to qualify. This generous gesture has accommodated the requests of our mostly New European allies, acknowledging that their Communist legacy may prevent them from meeting the more stringent standard and rewarding them for their political cooperation. Yet this is not enough for Poland - why? - because its citizens are the most egregious violators of our immigration laws notorious for the army of illegal immigrants already here and their current rejection rate is a whopping 26% (although down from 40% thanks to the generosity of our consular officers). So because Poland is not able to meet even the new, more relaxed, standard, we should now be bending backwards for it even more and additionally abolish any selectivity in granting visas so that their rejection rate goes down and allows them to qualify for the VWP. Instead of being grateful for a significant concession and seeing it as the first step toward their goal of visa-free travel, the Poles continue to complain and make more demands. While the Washington Post may fairly be criticized for printing this piece of propaganda, I think it is useful to have this illustration of the twisted and self-serving thought process of this "ally".
The Polish American community - of which I happen to be a member - has been watching with a certain degree of embarassment and a significant degree of satisfaction Poland's futile and abrasive attempts to get into the VWP. We were the first victims of Poland's arrogance and delusions of grandeur (such as considering themselves a normal European country, see this discussion) when it refused to recognize the American citizenship of those with Polish descent, in particular the recent refugees from Polish Communism, and declared us legally bound by all obligations of that Communist citizenship. Poland even implemented the policies of harassing departing Polish Americans, considered by its authorities exclusively as Polish citizens, at the border and preventing them from leaving Poland until they obtain Polish passports (the infamous "passport trap"). Yet this incident hasn't stopped them from asking Polish Americans to lobby for their visa obsession.
All these issues, starting with Mr. Reiter's dishonest article, paint the picture of a bizzare, dishonest, irrational, and self-serving country and the final question is whether something isn't wrong with our foreign policy if such eccentric parasites like Poland are considered our key allies? Shouldn't we have stronger allies among the countries that are much closer to the U.S. culturally and that share our Western values?
8/30/2007 12:22:45 PM
dealmake wrote:
Many good points posted, the snide remarks can be set aside with
the old lightbulb joke. For the most part, Poles came to America
and became more American than most other ethnic groups,they gave more than they took. That should satisfy the US officials. The sad part is that the officials who courted freedom and democracy for Poland
throughout the cold war, has now become a victim of their own policy.
All friendly people from around the world should come to the USA
America was at its greatest, when we were truely a diverse, and multicultural nation before it was a coined phrase. Melting pot cities
were built on the backs of hard working immigrants who took so much
abuse by the ruling class ans survived without, all of the benefits
and laws against abuse we have today. The fact the Poles came with the
US to Iraq shows how bad our policy is. But this is what you get from
both parties in America. The carrot and stick approach mind you was founded by Mussolini not the U.S.
the old lightbulb joke. For the most part, Poles came to America
and became more American than most other ethnic groups,they gave more than they took. That should satisfy the US officials. The sad part is that the officials who courted freedom and democracy for Poland
throughout the cold war, has now become a victim of their own policy.
All friendly people from around the world should come to the USA
America was at its greatest, when we were truely a diverse, and multicultural nation before it was a coined phrase. Melting pot cities
were built on the backs of hard working immigrants who took so much
abuse by the ruling class ans survived without, all of the benefits
and laws against abuse we have today. The fact the Poles came with the
US to Iraq shows how bad our policy is. But this is what you get from
both parties in America. The carrot and stick approach mind you was founded by Mussolini not the U.S.
8/30/2007 11:39:26 AM
nihil wrote:
Nice discussion going on here... Couple of comments from me:
jcovey - privilege??? Then as one person said here, maybe YOU should have to get visas for EVERY European Union country as well - for it is a greater 'privilege' to visit Rome or Athens than smelly NYC. Think about it.
Chance1 - And it was that stinking American who stole my bag in Philly. Well I guess people everywhere can be a bad example of a country they are from...
misieq - Good case you've presented here.
coloradodog - First - not every Pole is a white Christian. Second - a lot of Mexicans are Christian as well. And the problem with visas for Mexicans is of different matter - firstly you are neighbouring countries, and there will always be problems among countries near-by. Secondly - the number of people coming to US from Mexico to work illegally, versus the number of Poles... Go figure. And lastly - I can imagine your friends being angry - I went through the same process in Canada AND US. And I was legally studying in Canada as an exchange student, and legally travelling through US to 'see the world'.
hellos - Thank you for your words.
filipflapowski - You have Polish sounding surname, so I assume you are either living in Poland or of Polish descent. If the first one is the case - boy oh boy, are you sure you live in Poland??? The standards of living and the overall situation in my country is close to that in the Western Europe. Besides countries in Europe, not from the Western Europe region such as Slovenia, who joined EU the same day as Poland is in VWP. If the second is the case and you are of Polish descent - maybe you should visit Poland once or twice? As for the people who went away - knowing that the salary is better elsewhere, one can go if he/she wants, and NOTHING, like visas, stopped them, because Poland met certain standards and Poles are allowed to work withot fuss in some contries in EU. And as for the not being able to finance a trip to US - well, I don't get much money as an intern, but with a small help from my parents (who are middle class in Poland, not even close to upper-middle class) I managed to travel around Canada and US for 1,5 months. The airplane tickets are cheaper with every day and travelling inside US is sometimes cheaper than in Poland. Hostels are more expensive, but still cheaper than eg in Italy. If someone has enough good will to go through all that visa-application process and actually get a visa then of he/she goes.
doright - Money (and China) is the answer to many problems :) So true!
jtuchol - Why wouldn't we want to go to US? Country as any other - with great places to hike, swim, shop, sightsee, learn some history etc.
jablojack - Why oh why wouldn't my friend come to Boston on a conference with our company? I tell you why - maybe because he's already been to that conferece! People from various countries go on business trip to many places now - baw-wa-wa surprise surprise! Maybe that's why there is a Business class in airplanes!? And because there are many multinationals in Poland, I can see no reason why wouldn't they send their workers to eg their HQ. And I know people that simply go to NYC to shop and meet friends. As I know people who go to London to do that. World is a global village!
JoeM1 - Thank you :) Although the queue now is smaller - you call in advance to select appropriate for them and you time for your interview. Which is not the case in Canadian embassy, which is close by. The queues there could be huge.
Dr 007 - Apparantly you know your stuff, I know mine. Good for you. But I don't get why you are in Polish-American community if it's just standying idle by and watch the whole embarrasing process? Obviously you like to act... But I don't know excatly what is the case - haven't been a follower so you can be 100% right.
Thank you and excuse me for my errors :)
jcovey - privilege??? Then as one person said here, maybe YOU should have to get visas for EVERY European Union country as well - for it is a greater 'privilege' to visit Rome or Athens than smelly NYC. Think about it.
Chance1 - And it was that stinking American who stole my bag in Philly. Well I guess people everywhere can be a bad example of a country they are from...
misieq - Good case you've presented here.
coloradodog - First - not every Pole is a white Christian. Second - a lot of Mexicans are Christian as well. And the problem with visas for Mexicans is of different matter - firstly you are neighbouring countries, and there will always be problems among countries near-by. Secondly - the number of people coming to US from Mexico to work illegally, versus the number of Poles... Go figure. And lastly - I can imagine your friends being angry - I went through the same process in Canada AND US. And I was legally studying in Canada as an exchange student, and legally travelling through US to 'see the world'.
hellos - Thank you for your words.
filipflapowski - You have Polish sounding surname, so I assume you are either living in Poland or of Polish descent. If the first one is the case - boy oh boy, are you sure you live in Poland??? The standards of living and the overall situation in my country is close to that in the Western Europe. Besides countries in Europe, not from the Western Europe region such as Slovenia, who joined EU the same day as Poland is in VWP. If the second is the case and you are of Polish descent - maybe you should visit Poland once or twice? As for the people who went away - knowing that the salary is better elsewhere, one can go if he/she wants, and NOTHING, like visas, stopped them, because Poland met certain standards and Poles are allowed to work withot fuss in some contries in EU. And as for the not being able to finance a trip to US - well, I don't get much money as an intern, but with a small help from my parents (who are middle class in Poland, not even close to upper-middle class) I managed to travel around Canada and US for 1,5 months. The airplane tickets are cheaper with every day and travelling inside US is sometimes cheaper than in Poland. Hostels are more expensive, but still cheaper than eg in Italy. If someone has enough good will to go through all that visa-application process and actually get a visa then of he/she goes.
doright - Money (and China) is the answer to many problems :) So true!
jtuchol - Why wouldn't we want to go to US? Country as any other - with great places to hike, swim, shop, sightsee, learn some history etc.
jablojack - Why oh why wouldn't my friend come to Boston on a conference with our company? I tell you why - maybe because he's already been to that conferece! People from various countries go on business trip to many places now - baw-wa-wa surprise surprise! Maybe that's why there is a Business class in airplanes!? And because there are many multinationals in Poland, I can see no reason why wouldn't they send their workers to eg their HQ. And I know people that simply go to NYC to shop and meet friends. As I know people who go to London to do that. World is a global village!
JoeM1 - Thank you :) Although the queue now is smaller - you call in advance to select appropriate for them and you time for your interview. Which is not the case in Canadian embassy, which is close by. The queues there could be huge.
Dr 007 - Apparantly you know your stuff, I know mine. Good for you. But I don't get why you are in Polish-American community if it's just standying idle by and watch the whole embarrasing process? Obviously you like to act... But I don't know excatly what is the case - haven't been a follower so you can be 100% right.
Thank you and excuse me for my errors :)
8/30/2007 10:37:27 AM
beata_jannasz wrote:
Misieg ,nothing has changed.the majority of Poles are still poor ,I don't blame America 4 the visa policy, but im a minority.
8/30/2007 9:38:43 AM
JoeM1 wrote:
Ambassador Reiter, thank you for your column.
I had the good fortune to work in Warsaw, as well as travel to various parts of Poland, back in the mid-1990s. Everywhere I went, I was impressed by the friendliness of Poles to America and Americans.
This was true even though, whenever I walked past the U.S. Embassy, I would see a seemingly endless queue. I asked a Polish colleague about it, and he explained that the never-ending line was for visas to the United States.
It's a shame that with the Cold War long over and Central Europe becoming integrated into the world economy, American short-sightedness and rigidity, plus the imbicility of the Bush administration's go-it-alone foreign policy, are snuffing out the longstanding affection that Poland's ordinary people have had for the United States.
In that, Poland is apparently truly joining the rest of the world. It's our loss.
I had the good fortune to work in Warsaw, as well as travel to various parts of Poland, back in the mid-1990s. Everywhere I went, I was impressed by the friendliness of Poles to America and Americans.
This was true even though, whenever I walked past the U.S. Embassy, I would see a seemingly endless queue. I asked a Polish colleague about it, and he explained that the never-ending line was for visas to the United States.
It's a shame that with the Cold War long over and Central Europe becoming integrated into the world economy, American short-sightedness and rigidity, plus the imbicility of the Bush administration's go-it-alone foreign policy, are snuffing out the longstanding affection that Poland's ordinary people have had for the United States.
In that, Poland is apparently truly joining the rest of the world. It's our loss.
8/29/2007 9:35:30 PM
jablojack wrote:
I am truly surprised that Mr.Reiter, the RP ambassador to the US would use so inaccurate and demagogic arguments. Poles are denied visas becuause majority of them lie on their visa applications, stating that they do not intend to work in the US. Majority of them go to work almost immediately. The statement that Poles come to the US to visit their families is somewhat true but argument that Poles come to the US on business or just to go shopping in New York is simply...ridiculous.
8/29/2007 7:50:18 PM
jtuchol wrote:
I personally think that this is quite alright for the States to reject the right for visa to Poles. The problem is with Poles who are emotional and see things black and white only. Just swallow it. And one more thing. Do Poles really want to come to US?
8/29/2007 7:23:04 PM
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